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 Combat Questions

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SatoshiHeise
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PostSubject: Combat Questions   June 27th 2014, 22:09

Hey Um I battled recently and I'm currently watching one battle and I'm wondering... How does Roling and Dex Balance out? Because I could have a High Dex for no reason that doesn't necessarily mean I would get hit.
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 27th 2014, 22:24

**Dodging Jutsu (Genjutsu jutsu cannot be dodged unless you have learned the ability)
The higher the speed the less stamina it takes…
Stamina Usage = Attack Damage - (Speed - Attack Damage)
EX. Attack Damage(50) - (Speed 70 - Attack Damage 50) = 30 Stamina Usage
If you get a negative after you do the subtracting in the parenthesis then change it to a positive and instead of subtracting it from attack damage add it so the formula would change to this…
Attack Damage (60) + (Speed 50 - Attack Damage 60 = -10 convert it to a positive = 10) But if you get a negative for the overall first formula then it will not take any stamina to dodge.

This was off of a Site I use to run. I feel we can fit this into your Site Omni. It would still be fair because one Physical energy runs out that means you can no longer perform Jutsu. Also it would make the food items in the Ninja daily shop.. useful... like water and stuff because I noticed a lot of stuff goes unused. Anyways also... Once stamina runs out than people can start using a roll system... Based on luck.

You can change the system how you see fit but this layout came from my old site I ran with Lewi or Wulf as you guys know him.

Signed... A victim of Unlucky rolls.

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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 27th 2014, 22:29

^ Give this man some chicken!!! ^

I do agree tho



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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 27th 2014, 23:40

I understand where you are coming from about the techniques. As Dex plays its roll for Ninjutsu and puppet techniques. Even more so with the issue of items one can invent newer items for sell to other members it would just need how it was created and what was used. To create the item, and to have it either be sold to others or not. Now in some cases you have unfair rolls. Yes one's speed can be higher can possibly dodge or hit head on. But those of lower speed will not be able to hit that target. Meaning the lower the speed should their rolls be decreased?

We cut down on a lot of formulas to make the site easier to go with. Reaction and Evading just evolved into, "Counter Actions" If you feel as though you are not going to out beat a lets say "14" then performing a counter action to boost your defense, to switch places can be performed however it costs you -1 Action per action done. This does stack as well, for example.

[ie.]
Kyuubi's Bijuudama: Roll 18
Player A: -Counter Action- [-1 Action start of Turn] [Change Body Stance]
Player A's Turns: [Max Action: 2/3] *because of paid action before hand*

Now if you choose counter action, you do forfeit your rolls. However... there is a bright side to it all. If you have feel like you can beat the opponent's rolls go for it. But do not perform a counter action before hand. Also we do have a few techniques and abilities that can boost one's rolls for hit/miss. [ie. Sharingan's foresight, Shuuraigan, plus custom techniques or abilities can be made.]

[ie. Legal!] --> You can do this
Player A: Rolls 2, 5, 8, 8, 20
Player B: Rolls 3,7,9,9, Counter Action

[ie.Illegal!] --> you cannot do this
Player A: Rolls 2, 5, 8, 8, 20
Player B: Counter Action, rolls [x]

Everything has a weakness as they say its how you see and can counter that weakness that matters.
Genjutsu's - Contact Types. if its a "Touch" type they must still roll for it to hit.

The site is on a whole different level of Rping as I have stated before, you will need to use everything you know and everything you have on you to your advantage. Look at it this way...you truly are fighting to survive in the ninja world.
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 27th 2014, 23:55

I completely understand where you are coming from with that. A lot of stuff on this site makes sense so far (I.e the stuff you told me about Binding techs), but I still think it's entirely to based on luck. You know what I mean? Wulf pointed out maybe we can use Dex to add to rolls. Because at the End of the day if I have 50,000 speed... and my opponent has 1,000 speed. I should be able to hit my opponent every time without having to worry about if my roll was to low or Two High to evade.

I'm not saying completely change the system but I'm pointing out the possibility that maybe a Dual-System would work.

Take the Fight with Wulf and his clone right now... Let's just say for instances Wulf was having a bad night and has rolled 1's all night. He has no jutsu, so is that to say he's going to be hit every time? Now I know it's Highly unlikely but in statistics anything is probable.

Food for thought. Counter Actions could still work with the a new evade and Blocking system but... To rely simple on rolls at the end of the day... Isn't a very fun Idea especially considering the work people put in to be the fastest.

I would Use 4th as an example but he wasn't teleporting completely and that's a whole another level. But Look at A... The fourth Raikage.... You know what I mean? Dude was monster and hella fast... Only Minato (Presumable also Obito as well since Obito can do Space Time as well) was able to counter rai at his Top Speed. SO.... Im just saying... a complete dice system for this aspect of Battle I don't agree with it.

Every other formula... Makes hella sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 03:08

Okay, I like how this convo is going so I sure as hell want in. You drive a good point Heise and Wulf. But like your example uses.

Player A: 50,000 DEX
Player B: 1,000 DEX

Player A vanishes running at fast speeds, only to have Player B be like. Straight line...and trip! See now that's where DEX having a high enough DEX can come into an issue. Now yeah A, was not really fast...he was basically using Raiton to give him a boost in raw speed yeah. But I mean look at it this way.

Player A: [Uses Lightning Armor] + [Melee]
Rolls: 1, Well shit too fast for him running into a wall.

Player B:
Rolls: 4

But let's look at Wulf's example, he's not having a good day against someone right rolling all 1's that's hardly going to happen. BUT let's say it does okay he's speed is say 500 and Mine is 340

Wulf: Melee
Rolls: 1 Dex/100 = 6

Me:
Rolls: 4 Dex/100 = 3 = 7

Now I see where you getting at with it. Not bad looking at it but now comes the bad part about it all. Setting that kind of thing up for a formula would mean even if I roll a 1

Roll: 1 my Dex/100 = Problem... Where you ask It would mean after I hit around 600 or higher. Rolling a 1, + Techniques + Abilities = Easy 20

I could be like Okay Speed is at 450, Use lightning armor, A Rank Jutsu get two Effects, +3 to Hit/Miss Roll and DEX x1.25 = 563 i'm at 563, well maybe, *Grows 4 tails.* 563 x 1.50 = 845 Oh wait, I think since last turn I saved up some Nature Energy I'll go Perfect Sage 845 x2.2 = 1859 [So far I've only used 3 Actions] Attacks with Melee [now 4]

Roll: 1 Dex/100 = 19 + 3 = over 20

You your ass is pretty much over the limit and broken the system. So you'd still be fucked cause then you'd have to use counter action after action to just dodge. cause you cannot roll and by the time the opponent is through they could be like okay i'm going to rest to get back energy and you attack oh i can slip here or here. But in the end you'd have to survive the asshole that's doing that. And its been seen, Nature Energy can be gathered whiled cloaked and use jutsus while cloaked.
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 03:17

Sorry for double posting...But okay lets look at it with the previous system we used... in order to have confirm a hit, you'd have to roll under half or your DEX when we started.

That would mean... I'd have to do this if my DEX was 1800

I have to roll 900 or Lower to confirm my hit....
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 03:17

The member 'Grave Breaker' has done the following action : Dices

#1 'D200' : 67

--------------------------------

#2 'D200' : 44

--------------------------------

#3 'D200' : 64

--------------------------------

#4 'D200' : 135

--------------------------------

#5 'D100' : 94
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 03:19

Holy shit I hit! and my number was....*does math* 404! lol


*stares*


Yeah...I like it better with a hit/miss cause its like an actually RPG just cause you are a higher level and have high speed doesn't always mean you are going to hit that person.

ie. Pikachu use thunderbolt! on Chamander!]
[attack missed]

Well fuck you speed lol

Now i know what if me and my opponent get the same number?

I say...re-roll OR could always lower the dice to be a d10...but then a lot of techniques gotta be nerf.


Last edited by Grave Breaker on June 28th 2014, 03:22; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 03:21

Blastoise uses Hydro Wave on Charmander.
Attack Hits.
Critical Damage.



...


LOL pokemon!


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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 03:23

WTF...fat ass turtle has the lowest damn speed in the game and hits the target The hell Pikachu! f..u prof Oak. damn tree.

Might as well get a damn magickarp!
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 03:27

LMAO...

but any ways, back to what your saying, I agree completely because even though we all have those kind of stat booster in a way or form, it just means the person with the highest stat of Dexterity always wins, and the outcome just means the other person is screwed really unless they have good stats as well, it makes no difference in the long run but works out for those that are low leveled or stat based...


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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 06:59

First off, Fuck Mids.....-__-. Only shift where i have to go to be twice in the same day to feel rested.

Second, did anyone get Heise some chicken?

As he stated, yeah I brought it up to him as a suggestion.
I do agree though, that just because I have a higher DEX doesn't mean my attacks will always hit and my opponents will always miss.
But at the same time I feel as DEX should have some sort of influence on dice rolls. Nothing too big....
One idea I toss around in my head was that depending on how much higher your DEX compared to your opponent's you would receive a bonus.

Example:

Player A: Has a DEX of 500
Player B: Has a DEX of 300

What I was tossing around was for every 50 points (Just a random number) higher A's DEX was compared to B's; A would receive +1 to his rolls.
So that would be +4 bonus to A's Hit/Miss Rolls

I was thinking that the bonuses should be capped. Maybe at +6. Again just a random number.
Man, sometimes life and death depends on that +1 bonus lol.

Now when players of equal DEXs battle, It'll pretty much be the current system. You had better pray to the dice gods....
Which explains my current situation. Depending how this fight goes, I will probably abandon the dice gods.

Again these where just my thoughts, feelings, and opinions.
I haven't played pokemon since pokemon crystal.....wayyyyy back.
I got tired of my team of Magikarps getting merked. Honestly, if you have never raised a Magikarp to a Gyarados you haven't been playing Pokemon right.

From what I remember the individual attacks on pokemon each had their own accuracy. I can't remember if the pokemon themselves had an accuracy stat, but meh. Anyway attacks like "Scratch" had an accuracy of 100 and as long as no stat changes were involved this attack was going to hit. "Thunderbolt" I think was 75 so i wasn't too relievable. I think Pokemon uses more formulas and math than anyone cares to do.




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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 10:57

See we can talk with arguing... Grave I see your point but do you guys truly see mine? Again its getting to a point were we are relying to much on dumb luck for this mode of combat. I don't agree with luck I agree with numbers...

btw Grave your going to see that dex combo real soon with someone on the site
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 11:04

I realize there are no perfect ways of doing this kind of system. But there a multiple ways to get close... Thanks for the consideration team .
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 11:52

Sorry to intrude, but I think that the rolling advantage idea is really good. I suggested it before, never had back up. lol. A +1 per 50 pts is too steep though, but maybe every 100 should suffice. This also should exclude ninjutsu and genjutsu attacks, as the site system is based off of hand seals, rather than being directly connected o speed. Just my thought.
But, this overall idea puts into play the emphasizing of binding and slowing
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 11:55

Last thought Since Haya reminded me of binding.. Maybe binding techniques and Slowing techniques can decrease opponents rolls?


I.E say I do my super hard wood jutsu on Grave.. He loses -2 on all his rolls.

This way even so... the system would be so cluttered with luck. We have a chance to change outcomes! K i'm done.
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 12:08

Lol my bad, Haya, I would have totally supported you. These European girls, tho....I can't say no to them.

But yeah, 50 would be a little steep. It was just the first number i could thing of 100 and over is a better range.



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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 14:50

First things first, yes, I do know how it feels raising a magikarp to lvl 100 and another to be a gyardos, sucks but when you get there you feel like a god lol.

Back to the matters at hand, that's why the rolls are there, your binding jutsu's won't always work on your opponents Heise, and Hayabusa, because it first has to make connection with the opponent, and if they had the right training in understanding or if they had a weapon of some sort to help them out it wouldn't matter, because they know how to counter it. It's kind of like Guy vs Lee, it's an even style match because they both have had the same training (I know their teacher and student, just work with it lol) and hence forward, the fight would take a long time, until the first one got tired or broke down.

I also have stated this above before as well, the dice system isn't random, or provided by "Luck" such a word is useless, luck can't feed you, luck can't find you a wife, luck can't do a damn thing for anything, it's a belief system, the dice system is basically like any other dice system, if you know how light the dice are, then you roll a heavy hand, if the dice are heavy you roll a lighter hand. I also understand that the dice system on here seems unfair but that's how fights are, sometimes the stronger person has that blind skill to get them by, while those random fights they'll get beat by a bloody genin.

So what you guys are trying to say is that just because I can boost my stats quite a bloody hell of a lot, and I were to fight Hayabusa, or Heise, or you wulf (lol wulf, why a u instead of how it's really spelled? my spirit animal is a wolf ya know Smile -) or hell even all three of you I'd be at a huge disadvantage? even though my character has skill and understanding of fighting in wars and in uneven battles? What your all trying to say is that if we did a system similar to the one you are all talking about, even though I have the higher stats, I'd still lose if I were to fight one of you or all three of you and have a negative roll due to the fact that you'd all be trying to hither my abilities to move, and would be an all the way around bad time for me because you guys would have an higher haltered dice roll then I could attain with all your +1's and this and that.

These are my thoughts, no fights are to be made, we can all talk like civilized gents... I hope -stares at Heise-


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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 15:22

Your point in that last post was clearly made lol. In a sense I guess your talking about the Zabuza Vs Naruto and Sasuke sense of things. Clearly Zabuza should win... But the dice gods weren't with him that day at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 16:40

exactly, and it's in that case that fate had to happen that he lose and was brought to light that he was betrayed and had a choice to make hence he gave his life killing the man that paid and fed and housed him even though he was a midget of a prick to begin with, but power does that to people, we've all seen it happen at one point or another repeatedly. Those that don't have power that gain power don't know what to do with it and those that do abuse it, hence it's a learning curve.

Sure I may fight a new member later on or one of your new characters, and the dice may prove unfavourable towards me and I will eventually have the lower rolls a lot, but I don't worry about that at all, sure it'll suck to have my character die, but that's where I learn from my mistakes and build off of em.

Btw Blastoise uses surf lol


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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 17:04

Good talk everyone...


venasaur uses razor leaf... I auto win.
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 17:10

You all have wonderful points so I believe I should start from the beginning with it all.

Wulf's Point -
- Yes you bring up the point of having a random number being added for +[1 - 6] Yet that could cause some issues even with that as techniques and abilities can boost both rolls as Grave stated in the previous.

- I've been watching, the on and off battle, but its like poker if you are player and you get 15 do you take that risk and hit again to get that Ace or that 6? OR do you wait and be like...I stand so that way the dealer busts?  Its the same here, your enemy rolled a 15 you had the choice do you roll believing you can go over or do you counter action to cause damage. I figured you'd actually do a counter action of getting into defense having the damage be blocked then wait to see the next action.
1 - 5 = High Chance of beating Numbers
6 - 10 = A little risk but you have techniques/abilities to get around it.
11 - 15 = I should...only If I know I can do it.
16 = 20 = The risk is too high...I should counter the person's action.

- Pokemon Note: Yes techniques did have ACC on them but used a large number of Formulas to even do battle only one formula was easy to follow, "The beeping noise that told you, Hey your about to die do have any potions or food." [Yes I fused Fable into that]

Heise's Point -
- Yes some rolls are unfair but some rolls are not meant to be unfair. Its how it should be carry examined allowing you to gain more words within the battle. [A rolls 10 | B rolls 4] = Would be able to explain about dodging or having the attack make contact. [A rolls 4 | B rolls 11] = Would be able to explain how they carefully dodged under the attack.

- But bind techniques when one is caught they cannot roll at all because they are unable to move actually. Basically if you are stuck how are you suppose to even dodge? or perform a technique if under a binding like genjutsu? So that is actually been on the site.

Grave's Point
- Yes I can see how that could be an issue with having the techniques being used in that order if we were to use a DEX formula which is why it was removed to begin with cause of how it caused issues down the road during the first Exam Battles.

Raijin's Point
- As he stated as well its the same basics to the site just cause you each train at the same times or type more in a training. Your results of training will vary. In a battle in hit/miss if you miss your attack even the fastest fighter can make contact with the body but not cause damage cause they do not hit the correct area as well. [Guy and Lee] Now Zabuza should have one like Heise's said, but they're was some other factors that have to be looked at, one on that bridge everyone was getting use to a ninja battle. But if you look at how when he was Edo Tensai. That battle was clearly a use of how you are all doing battle now. Zabuza rolls 10 Kakashi [Luck of a God/Counter Action/Takes the hit] Kakashi rolls a 9 gets hit by the blade having it slide across as he pulls haku back.

- Yes Luck is not something that should even have a added need to it. Has anyone ever heard of Phantasy Star Universe? it was an old MMORPG for PS2/360/PC this game actually used Luck but it was deemed in 3 classes, [Poor, Average, High] It only worked for one thing and that was grinding the weapons to be stronger. I borrowed the idea to allow you all to use it as a way to expand your roll playing. [Ie. Character gets extra money, "Man I didn't think I did that good today must be my lucky day." or Character gets a boost in stats, "I do not understand why...but the workout I'm doing is actually paying off this week must be the Gods."]

Hayabusa's Point -
- I remember seeing you mention something about that. But the system had been updated to a little easier one where Hand seals do not even count actions anymore. Its meant for a RP focus. You know it requires 6 hand seals, make up six of your own. But if it shows the hand seals then you need to actually state it was used within your post. Even so with the idea of having DEX - 100 [+1 to Roll] Yes a cap would have to be add that would mean another system would be added while we are trying to cut back on having too many systems. I've notice all the systems with NFM and all ideas from everyone's point of view to it all.

My Point -
- The reason my point is last because of after I've read everything I want you all to see what I mean by the use of the Dice system on the site. I have actually been watching the site since the very first release of the Naruto site. Yes that means the actual release of NFM back when it was actually, Grave, Kage and Raito. The original founders of the idea. Now the systems then did not work using an dodging or evade system, because of the fact Dice rolling wasn't added or even known within an RPG site on MSN. So you all were forced to come up with formulas repeating everything left and right making sure it was fair. But came to notice something you'd have to limit how one's stats would be reached within that matter of time. After that I noticed something called an Auto-Damage System or ADS that caused the players that had super high endurance take some kind of internal damage.

- But that was a system that was pointless to even have. The reason if you really look at it all, you are all use to using Word Count, Line Count or Post Count to obtain somethings. Old Gen RPer's look at 2k words saying easy, New Gen RPers look at 2k words saying too much. I watched when Santy, King, Raijin, Raito, Grave and even Lydeck appear before the site. Even then you all ran into issue, Raito trying to kill off all Uchiha by using NPC's that were not fair on any level. King suddenly vanishing and Santy going missing. I have even seen you Heise becoming the five tailed jinchuuriki and then you suddenly decided to fight against the NPC group that was capturing the Jinchuuriki. I even know of Kurix how a clan he claimed was designed by him but he stole from another site. Yes I watched each and everyone one of you RP sometimes you as well Wulf.

- All things have to be used within the world. You are all looking for a way to better the system. When the system does not need to be better. You all need to use everything to your advantage. As I said I am aiming to push your thinking to a whole different level. You are not just RPing writing the story now...you are the character this is your life now you are playing this role you will die you will live you will fight. You all need to look carefully at what you are all truly doing, Learning and creating techniques all fine but you are not using the systems to the limit. You are basically scratching the surface of it all. I want that imagination of a true roleplayer to come out. Even more so even adding the way you have it for the DEX.

- We can always up the system, but then sharingan would lose its own increase for rolls from being +6 to a simple +3. I'd have to close the site down even more to update everything I'm trying my hardest to keep the ideas and adding new content without having to change any details cause in the end you believe going against a Bijuu wouldn't take over 4 hours. 1st - 3rd tailed are actually the only easy ones. Anything else you go after I'm telling you now its over 1k in DEX. Meaning you will most likely die. Use everything find your own way for your shinobi/kunochi [to be fair] to survive. I explained to Grave I had a system that could top any other system that was developed using everything to my knowledge and I created this system with information from all of you.

- I'm not saying you are all disrespecting my work or anything. I'm saying look closer at everything. Use your minds eye to get pass that wall in front of you. Everything has a weakness that would mean even the hit/miss has its own weakness if you cannot see it for yourself then how can you all truly say you can design systems if you cannot simply beat something a 6 year old child did in a day? Yes I am challenging you all, I'm challenging your very skills you are all so proud of having. I see you can train you can do everything else anyone can do...but can you truly find what I want you to find and beat what is so easy to beat.

L.I.F.E System = Leaving Imagination For Everyone...that is my gift to you all. Grave couldn't beat me after I designed the system and still cannot even with what he knows. You honestly think I'm losing to you all with the NPCs I have been easy going allowing you all to get relaxed with your own techniques and abilities. Now I see you are all growing from it time to see if you truly deserve.
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 17:30

I'll always gladly accept a challenge, even if I die, I will do so with no regrets because I will put my best foot forward. I'll work on what you said, I'll look more deeply into everything, and it's been a while since I've opened that eye though... this should get interesting lol


Death comes for us all... all a man can do is smile back.
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 17:36

"

PRAISE THE DICE GODS!!!!!!!!!



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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 17:39

Dicism! Believe in the holy Dice as it shines gold to all those that hold it! use its heavenly power to smite those non-believers in the middle of a battle wanting to attack thy devil beast. OH Sixsus or twentyoses! may your heavenly father guide my hand and roll a 20!
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 17:39

The member 'Grave Breaker' has done the following action : Dices

'D20' : 15
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 17:40

Ahem.... I have a better shot a rolling a twenty... I'm black.
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 17:40

The member 'SatoshiHeise' has done the following action : Dices

'D20' : 8, 7, 3, 18, 19, 14, 10, 9, 10, 5, 8, 2, 14, 17, 10, 19, 14, 14, 6, 10
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PostSubject: Re: Combat Questions   June 28th 2014, 17:49

Grave, seriously, how you be getting these 15s tho?
lol.

I can't get a 15, maybe a 14, never a 15.
Blasphemy!!!!



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